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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m not a storyteller &#8212; I&#8217;m an information provider</title>
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	<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/</link>
	<description>The blog of online journalist and Web developer Patrick Thornton. This blog seeks to combine journalism and Web development to forge a new frontier.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael J</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-5116</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-5116</guid>
		<description>"Information" and "facts" are  internalized through the narratives in our heads. Characters, motives, standard plots, senses of time and place. These are the hooks that transform information into knowledge. Without hooks, it tends to be noise.  

It's not about "once upon a time." It's about an implicit thought model, a narrative, that makes "sense" of information.  Information is always in a "story" or a "narrative." The only issue is whether it's implicit or explicit. When it's done really well, it's almost impossible for the reader to tell the difference</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Information&#8221; and &#8220;facts&#8221; are  internalized through the narratives in our heads. Characters, motives, standard plots, senses of time and place. These are the hooks that transform information into knowledge. Without hooks, it tends to be noise.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about &#8220;once upon a time.&#8221; It&#8217;s about an implicit thought model, a narrative, that makes &#8220;sense&#8221; of information.  Information is always in a &#8220;story&#8221; or a &#8220;narrative.&#8221; The only issue is whether it&#8217;s implicit or explicit. When it&#8217;s done really well, it&#8217;s almost impossible for the reader to tell the difference</p>
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		<title>By: Morton</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-5115</link>
		<dc:creator>Morton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-5115</guid>
		<description>Anytime you place limits on yourself, for example, saying, "I provide information, not stories," you demonstrate a narrow mind.  It is intellectually lazy to always try and classify things and force them into neat little boxes...  BE FREE...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anytime you place limits on yourself, for example, saying, &#8220;I provide information, not stories,&#8221; you demonstrate a narrow mind.  It is intellectually lazy to always try and classify things and force them into neat little boxes&#8230;  BE FREE&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nachrichtenfluss &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weg vom Image des Geschichtenerzählers!</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachrichtenfluss &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weg vom Image des Geschichtenerzählers!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>[...] Patrick Thornton widerspricht McAdams jedoch. Er sieht sich nicht als &#8220;storyteller&#8221;, als einfacher Geschichtenerzähler. Ein Journalist sollte sich vielmehr dadurch auszeichnen, dass er Informationen auswählt bereitstellt. Im heutigen Medienmarkt müsse das unabhängig von der Art des Mediums passieren. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Patrick Thornton widerspricht McAdams jedoch. Er sieht sich nicht als &#8220;storyteller&#8221;, als einfacher Geschichtenerzähler. Ein Journalist sollte sich vielmehr dadurch auszeichnen, dass er Informationen auswählt bereitstellt. Im heutigen Medienmarkt müsse das unabhängig von der Art des Mediums passieren. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Certamente! economia: Speedlink</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4052</link>
		<dc:creator>Certamente! economia: Speedlink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4052</guid>
		<description>[...] in the mediums they want to report in. It has very little to do with what people actually want. » I’m not a storyteller — I’m an information provider &#124; The Journalism Iconoclast ? The translation is pretty good. You can take a Chinese web page and at least get a sense of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the mediums they want to report in. It has very little to do with what people actually want. » I’m not a storyteller — I’m an information provider | The Journalism Iconoclast ? The translation is pretty good. You can take a Chinese web page and at least get a sense of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Contadores de histórias ou fornecedores de informação? &#124; Storytellers or information providers? &#171; O Lago &#124; The Lake</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4039</link>
		<dc:creator>Contadores de histórias ou fornecedores de informação? &#124; Storytellers or information providers? &#171; O Lago &#124; The Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4039</guid>
		<description>[...] Pat Thornton, o Iconoclasta, questiona se os jornalistas são contadores de histórias ou fornecedor... Ele assume-se claramente como o segundo: &#8220;De facto, eu não sou muito bom a contar histórias. Mas posso vos dar muitos factos, números e informação&#8221;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pat Thornton, o Iconoclasta, questiona se os jornalistas são contadores de histórias ou fornecedor&#8230; Ele assume-se claramente como o segundo: &#8220;De facto, eu não sou muito bom a contar histórias. Mas posso vos dar muitos factos, números e informação&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Teaching Online Journalism &#187; Move your journalism beyond writing</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4038</link>
		<dc:creator>Teaching Online Journalism &#187; Move your journalism beyond writing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4038</guid>
		<description>[...] I’m not a storyteller &#8212; I’m an information provider (Pat Thornton) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I’m not a storyteller &#8212; I’m an information provider (Pat Thornton) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4037</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4037</guid>
		<description>Many journalists are no good at telling stories anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many journalists are no good at telling stories anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Deryck Hodge</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4036</link>
		<dc:creator>Deryck Hodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4036</guid>
		<description>The thing that gets missed in these stories vs. information debate to me is that "story" is not equal to "narrative."  Data-driven web sites with no narrative are boring.  Sorry. :-)

I'll agree that not everything in the news should be so story-centric, but to say this:

"People ultimately want journalism so they can be informed."

And to use that to imply people don't like stories is just plain wrong.  Narrative is the oldest form of how humans make sense of the world.  It's not going anywhere, and data sites that don't make use of some kind of narrative are boring and are seldom used.

Likewise, I think it's wrong to imply that journalists who see themselves as storytellers are useless on the web.  I'm a programmer and I see myself as a storyteller.  I see storytelling as the most essential element to a good web site of any kind.  The traditional news story "form" may be limiting or not as useful on the web, but story itself is every bit as useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that gets missed in these stories vs. information debate to me is that &#8220;story&#8221; is not equal to &#8220;narrative.&#8221;  Data-driven web sites with no narrative are boring.  Sorry. <img src='http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll agree that not everything in the news should be so story-centric, but to say this:</p>
<p>&#8220;People ultimately want journalism so they can be informed.&#8221;</p>
<p>And to use that to imply people don&#8217;t like stories is just plain wrong.  Narrative is the oldest form of how humans make sense of the world.  It&#8217;s not going anywhere, and data sites that don&#8217;t make use of some kind of narrative are boring and are seldom used.</p>
<p>Likewise, I think it&#8217;s wrong to imply that journalists who see themselves as storytellers are useless on the web.  I&#8217;m a programmer and I see myself as a storyteller.  I see storytelling as the most essential element to a good web site of any kind.  The traditional news story &#8220;form&#8221; may be limiting or not as useful on the web, but story itself is every bit as useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy Parker</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4035</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendy Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4035</guid>
		<description>We occasionally use narrative and ASF material that doesn't translate well to the website by turning it into photo galleries, map mashups, etc. that we know will drive traffic. 

In my current project, nearly all of the top 15 or so links with the most page views are either galleries or interactives. Only a couple of true "narrative" stories -- those produced with print in mind -- are in the mix. 

That's what I think about now -- it's in all of our job descriptions -- meeting traffic goals, which goes to catering to audience needs. In some ways what I do now seems less like journalism and more like doing what I long thought was the job of our marketing and advertising offices.

I was one of those journalists who got into the profession because I thought it was a calling. And those journalists who still think this way are having the most difficult time right now. Like those who believe in the church of long-form storytelling, there's a tendency to see themselves as above the commercial fray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We occasionally use narrative and ASF material that doesn&#8217;t translate well to the website by turning it into photo galleries, map mashups, etc. that we know will drive traffic. </p>
<p>In my current project, nearly all of the top 15 or so links with the most page views are either galleries or interactives. Only a couple of true &#8220;narrative&#8221; stories &#8212; those produced with print in mind &#8212; are in the mix. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I think about now &#8212; it&#8217;s in all of our job descriptions &#8212; meeting traffic goals, which goes to catering to audience needs. In some ways what I do now seems less like journalism and more like doing what I long thought was the job of our marketing and advertising offices.</p>
<p>I was one of those journalists who got into the profession because I thought it was a calling. And those journalists who still think this way are having the most difficult time right now. Like those who believe in the church of long-form storytelling, there&#8217;s a tendency to see themselves as above the commercial fray.</p>
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		<title>By: Iain Withers</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4034</link>
		<dc:creator>Iain Withers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4034</guid>
		<description>I agree with a few other posters, this is a bit of a reductive view. I think you overstate people's preference for information over 'stories'. 

There's a commercial value to picking out the narratives that are going to resonate with people. You may not agree with their values, but tabloids often do this better than most and reap the commercial rewards. I think there's some value to your approach, but (and perhaps this is a bit old-fashioned) I kind of think that if you can't find a 'story' in your notes then you've got to question the value of the news. Picking the right way to tell a story is still a valuable craft, perhaps more so when people are drowning in information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with a few other posters, this is a bit of a reductive view. I think you overstate people&#8217;s preference for information over &#8217;stories&#8217;. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a commercial value to picking out the narratives that are going to resonate with people. You may not agree with their values, but tabloids often do this better than most and reap the commercial rewards. I think there&#8217;s some value to your approach, but (and perhaps this is a bit old-fashioned) I kind of think that if you can&#8217;t find a &#8217;story&#8217; in your notes then you&#8217;ve got to question the value of the news. Picking the right way to tell a story is still a valuable craft, perhaps more so when people are drowning in information.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiyoshi Martinez</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiyoshi Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4032</guid>
		<description>Generally, I think you're right with the concept, but ignoring part of what a newsroom can (and maybe should?) do.

The web, newspapers, TV stations, any news organization needs people to present information in a variety of formats. No, it's not always going to be "storytime" for the reader, but it also won't just be "oh, look at this really cool web gizmo I made" either. 

As with any career field, you need to be familiar with what everyone else does in regard to skills and have a bit of working knowledge in each place yourself, but you should specialize in something you're good at. And, ideally, your organization will put you in a role the you're best suited for. Now, if you're a writer, this means occasionally picking up a camera. If you're a photographer, this means maybe interviewing the people you talk with and writing something to go along with that gallery of images you came back with. 

In the end, there should be a collaborative effort to tell a story. At least on the big stuff. This isn't any different than what has gone on in newsrooms, but it's just that there's a whole new array of skillsets to be included. And it's not just the gathering and presenting of information, but also the distribution and publishing of it, too. After all, what good is your story if no one reads it and it doesn't generate money for the company -- be it pageviews or readership.

Do some writers need to check their ego at the door? Sure, but so do some photographers, web people and designers, too. 

And about how print reporters now are loathing not being able to practice journalism as a craft and artform, well, learn to separate what you're writing at work from what you write for yourself. It's work, not your life. Put in your time, go home and pursue your art. If it's really as good as you think it is, then someone should be willing to pay you for it -- right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generally, I think you&#8217;re right with the concept, but ignoring part of what a newsroom can (and maybe should?) do.</p>
<p>The web, newspapers, TV stations, any news organization needs people to present information in a variety of formats. No, it&#8217;s not always going to be &#8220;storytime&#8221; for the reader, but it also won&#8217;t just be &#8220;oh, look at this really cool web gizmo I made&#8221; either. </p>
<p>As with any career field, you need to be familiar with what everyone else does in regard to skills and have a bit of working knowledge in each place yourself, but you should specialize in something you&#8217;re good at. And, ideally, your organization will put you in a role the you&#8217;re best suited for. Now, if you&#8217;re a writer, this means occasionally picking up a camera. If you&#8217;re a photographer, this means maybe interviewing the people you talk with and writing something to go along with that gallery of images you came back with. </p>
<p>In the end, there should be a collaborative effort to tell a story. At least on the big stuff. This isn&#8217;t any different than what has gone on in newsrooms, but it&#8217;s just that there&#8217;s a whole new array of skillsets to be included. And it&#8217;s not just the gathering and presenting of information, but also the distribution and publishing of it, too. After all, what good is your story if no one reads it and it doesn&#8217;t generate money for the company &#8212; be it pageviews or readership.</p>
<p>Do some writers need to check their ego at the door? Sure, but so do some photographers, web people and designers, too. </p>
<p>And about how print reporters now are loathing not being able to practice journalism as a craft and artform, well, learn to separate what you&#8217;re writing at work from what you write for yourself. It&#8217;s work, not your life. Put in your time, go home and pursue your art. If it&#8217;s really as good as you think it is, then someone should be willing to pay you for it &#8212; right?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Louise</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4031</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4031</guid>
		<description>I'm going to agree with Daniel. The way you've framed the question -- as facts-and-figures vs. narrative -- is a bit over simplified. That aside, you raise a valid point about the intincts journalists rely on to determine their story forms. Most of us, if we're not writing for ourselves, are writing for people like us. 

Many newspapers have long and growing lists of "alternate story formats" to suit all kinds of content in smart, often short, reader-friendly ways. We just don't use them. We're basing decisions on who we think our readers are rather than who they've become. 

There's a lot of research out there about how people consume media today, and we'd all do well to be fluent in it and to share it with our colleagues. Pat, or anyone else for that matter, what have you found to be some of the best resources for hard-and-fast facts about what, as you say, people want from their media?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to agree with Daniel. The way you&#8217;ve framed the question &#8212; as facts-and-figures vs. narrative &#8212; is a bit over simplified. That aside, you raise a valid point about the intincts journalists rely on to determine their story forms. Most of us, if we&#8217;re not writing for ourselves, are writing for people like us. </p>
<p>Many newspapers have long and growing lists of &#8220;alternate story formats&#8221; to suit all kinds of content in smart, often short, reader-friendly ways. We just don&#8217;t use them. We&#8217;re basing decisions on who we think our readers are rather than who they&#8217;ve become. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot of research out there about how people consume media today, and we&#8217;d all do well to be fluent in it and to share it with our colleagues. Pat, or anyone else for that matter, what have you found to be some of the best resources for hard-and-fast facts about what, as you say, people want from their media?</p>
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		<title>By: MCWFlint</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>MCWFlint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>Sometimes stories are the best way to present information. A talented journalist matches form to function, to purpose. On breaking news, a Twitter-type text may be enough. But sometimes I need and want more - audio, photo, video, map, more words. 

I am a reader who gets bored when everything is the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes stories are the best way to present information. A talented journalist matches form to function, to purpose. On breaking news, a Twitter-type text may be enough. But sometimes I need and want more - audio, photo, video, map, more words. </p>
<p>I am a reader who gets bored when everything is the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Neznanski</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4029</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Neznanski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4029</guid>
		<description>I have never really thought of myself as a "writer," something I used to argue with colleagues back when I was in college. And I agree that too often a reporter's ego and running with a creative idea can get in the way of the information. But there's the issue of format that is perhaps the greatest barrier.
Newspapers are designed for stories. To fit the format, all news must be packaged as a story (or at least that's what tradition--powerful stuff--tells us). That's where the Web is teaching us new techniques. Ultimately, news organizations will understand that there is a time and a place for a story and equal or greater need for readily accessible information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never really thought of myself as a &#8220;writer,&#8221; something I used to argue with colleagues back when I was in college. And I agree that too often a reporter&#8217;s ego and running with a creative idea can get in the way of the information. But there&#8217;s the issue of format that is perhaps the greatest barrier.<br />
Newspapers are designed for stories. To fit the format, all news must be packaged as a story (or at least that&#8217;s what tradition&#8211;powerful stuff&#8211;tells us). That&#8217;s where the Web is teaching us new techniques. Ultimately, news organizations will understand that there is a time and a place for a story and equal or greater need for readily accessible information.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Victor</title>
		<link>http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/2008/06/30/im-not-a-storyteller-im-an-information-provider/#comment-4028</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patthorntonfiles.com/blog/?p=310#comment-4028</guid>
		<description>I don't see why there are only two choices. A dichotomy between telling compelling stories and providing important information exists only in bad writers and bad stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why there are only two choices. A dichotomy between telling compelling stories and providing important information exists only in bad writers and bad stories.</p>
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